Fell behind on but I'm going to probably pop a top level on for Venat since I do want to do the stuff I set up. Wind kinda poofed out of my sails with no TDM ngl.

do still want to be here though so I'll see what I can do

on the other hand I am... also behind on.

November slapped me around a little ngl.

/flops on

November was a month for sure

HOKAY and AC done

Jamie was a reclaim

need to do something with him

he's being a big ol' lump since his husband boyfriend left

TDL
- Hanna Vincent Dawnlight choices
- Saga Dawnlight threads
- Saga check in with Alan's new warden
- tag Iago

- toss Basilio on TDM again
- figure out an INMATE to toss on TDM

we can always do an ex pirate meetup

omnomivore: ooo

I'm going to give Jamie a post

pirate support group!

pirate support group!!!! Tendi hasn't met Silver either I should fix that

when I am done with work today I am going to tag you back and have fun I am excited for it.

BBitsaboi: WOOT

tinwateringcan Jedao asked John to spend some time with Hakkai. Would you like to thread that? not sure what your time stuff is at now cause I'm up for it but figured I'd check in before tagging

also I think this got lost in other plotting plurks - I'm not sure what John is asking in his last tag to Jedao?

shipoftheseus: it did! Jedao said "I hope you'll find the words I can't." and John is wondering if it's words for Justine or other people

I would be up for that! I need to catch up on tags today and I'll be slow this week and next as we finish up the semester, but I can pick at tags for sure

tinwateringcan: I'll hit up his inbox

Okay <3

This has nothing to do with anything, but it just hit me: if Sebastian has seen John's mark on Justine, he's 99% sure John means to eat her.

I thought you should know.

of course!

to be fair that is the standard course of action

Sebastian: you sly dog, sir
John: ...it's not like that.
Sebastian: suuuure it's not. of course. you're a warden. riiiight.
John: /facepalming forever

Haha, yes.

Also: low-key offended that John isn't getting growly by Sebastian being so close to Justine. Hello, acknowledge him as a threat, would you??

John: are you threat, tho.
Sebastian: ......well. no; I have no plans of eating her. But THEORETICALLY!

"I would growl at you if you were putting moves on my future meal. it's called respect."

"I respect you enough to think you wouldn't be inappropriate with her."

"You're a threat of course but you know your manners. You're a professional."

Meanwhile, Justine is sitting to the side sipping tea
waningsunflower

Justine over on the side enjoying demons fighting over her...

A Macaron of a Person

Justine loves that, are you kidding?

just meant Justine Currently In General lol

Justine Always

....that is her whole application

I'm just picturing Sebastian as a tiny dog to John's big dog energy

I always see Sebastian as like a doberman: all lean lines. Whereas John's like a mastiff

Justine petting both of them like "they're my good good boys"

they're such good boys

I'm sad that the Malcolm/John talk is private because Sweeney HATED Lark and was shitty about him forever until Malcolm got made pack. He's the whole reason that Sweeney's not still an utter dick about Lark to everyone mentioning him

magicom

And he was still a dick about Lark when he attacked Arthur and made that shit known every chance he got, because it was not fucking cool

example

yeah John is VERY baffled at this take

But he's fine. Like. Everyone has ONE person that can't stand them. That's not social sanctioning.

cause like, he knows about Sweeney and Maggie and how big a stink Willa made

Willa's gone, Maggie got Lark to turn her again when she got killed and her first turning was erased, Sweeney has never liked him.

John doesn't think social sanctioning is a good idea ANYWAY

it' just isolates people

No it's not a good idea.

That's ABSOLUTELY what happens.

I would say OOC I don't really see that either

That there are different standards for behaviour for different characters based on their popularity?

Fandom is built on it XD

fandom, yes

but not in game

everyone's got their supporters and detractors

and when someone fucks up, it's usually a good mix of them, then no one's happy with how their dealt with

the detractors are annoyed at the supporters, the supporters are annoyed at the detractors

and then gradually people either talk it out or they don't

"they need to be held accountable" "yes but what about helping them do better?" "what about the victims?" and then "their warden, having read their file, knows why this happened but can't talk about it"

yeah

I do see it tbh

I think it comes from similar places as in fandom, and I understand not wanting to see it in game, but it absolutely happens

I've not been on the receiving end but I've observed it

I think if you're not stuck on the receiving end it's easy to miss

I think it's really easy to feel that way early on in your time here

I did back when I was first here.

I think it might just be something that we have to agree to disagree.

I think it happens on a fragmented ooc level that makes it easy to miss, but I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. Because I have seen it happen.

Okay

I'm not looking to wade into the ooc talk; I'm just looking for a quick clarification, magicom. Were you saying that Sweeney's vocal criticism isn't social sanctioning because he never liked Lark, or just because he's the one person that can't stand him?

floofdoodle: you all good!

floofdoodle: Because it's just one person.

There are probably a few but in the main, he's well liked.

It's more a social theory that's been on his mind than anything he wants to do anything about. And John is always good for bouncing thoughts off of because he's open minded.

magicom: oh, for sure. Sweeney goes to him for the same thing

And the 'one person' thing makes sense

But Sweeney's never been terribly successful at spreading any of his opinions (including the one he shares with Malcolm about nonuniform punishment)

Yeah, John... straight up doesn't believe in punishment. Mostly because horrible things happen to everyone so it's easy to turn into a bad thought loop. And because horrible shit happened to him for a long time and it was only when Arthur was kind that he started to learn.

and his mentioned feelings on 'justice' not being a thing.

and he's seen that thought loop happen to Arthur and Natalie and Astarion

What does he do instead? (Other than make it where Natalie can't get intoxicated)?

the first time when Natalie shot Arthur

it was because she believed that John would be better off without her

so he house arrested himself in his cabin with her to nail down that No Not Happening

and they learned how to cook together to make a meal to apologize to Arthur

and the no intoxication thing was semi-mutually decided

when Envy pulled that alchemy stunt, he talked to them about why they felt like they were hitting a dead end and tried to find a path forward for them. that wasn't his inmate, but he helped find them a solution

the one time Astarion did something that pissed him off (killing people in port) he went and found him and walked him back to the ship.

his main method of it is 'this is not getting you what you want, not really'

'let's figure out how to get you what you actually want'

he DOES believe that being insulated by power is a problem, 100% but he also thinks that's not so much an issue for inmates by nature of them BEING inmates

That's interesting. And it makes sense why John could sell it. He has such a specific vibe

Like super knowledgeable, but also...innocent isn't the right word. Or naïve. But he has a newness to his perspective of life that makes him have a lot of 'but why' that still comes off as genuine

everyone is different and john doesn't assume that their OR his own perspective is universal or even shared, so his questions are always genuine

but bc everyone else speaks sarcasm as a first language when it's john's like third, reception is wildly mixed

also he has like 0 expectations of anything

no one owes him anything, even as much as 'not stabbing him'

when Henry came after them, he like... thanked him for just breaking Arthur's arm

because he could have done worse but didn't

but he did say that he wasn't happy that he'd hurt Arthur

for him, consequences are emotional and social but on a VERY one on one level

they don't even make sense to him in a 'community' sense.

a 'you hurt my friend' sense, yes. but not in a 'we in the community should not allow x'

Maniette: that too!

Malcolm also doesn’t think punishment is effective here and more believes in consequences that teach the person something to help change the problematic behaviour.

And address the wrongs done to the victim in a way that helps them heal.

it's that last one he has problem with. cause like.

usually the person who did it doesn't care.

not yet, anyway

But he thinks it should be fair. Because just letting inmates get away with stuff lets them think that the problematic behaviour is okay, for one thing.

I think everyone thinks inmates shouldn't be allowed to get away with stuff

but there's a difference between punishment and preventatives

That’s why the teaching consequences need to work towards helping the, change the root cause of that lack of care.

*them

ideally

but sometimes people just aren't there yet

Preventing is partly acting on small red flags before big ones happen.

the problem with that is

in an OOC sense

big ones are fun to play

True but they never will be if the work doesn’t start.

so you're kind of setting up a situation where because an inmate player wants to have fun, the warden player isn't doing their job?

yes, but it's a balance between ic and ooc

Yeah if you look at it from an ooc perspective that is true.

and I mean, it's a game, ooc's always a big part of it to my mind.

Tho i don’t think icly anyone thinks wardens can control inmates. I don’t think anyone blames Jedao for the memory thing Justine did bc he did address her previous smaller crime appropriately.

And she still did the big one very on brandly.

but that's what I mean: you can't 'see the small red flags' all the time, it has to be balanced with letting your warden player miss things

nd we all understand that.

And it was, as you said, great fun.

Yeah, definitely, just if asked the way to prevent, that is what he would suggest but wardens aren’t with the inmates at all times or anything.

They’ll naturally miss stuff by virtue of the mechanisms of the setting.

I think we're agreeing in different words

Yes

I’m just saying IC Logic matches your OOC Logic.

looks away in 'not stabbing him'

but tldr John doesn't believe in punishment. he does believe in finding solutions and he finds that once you address the problems, maslow hierarchy of needs like, then progress can be made

hardtostarboard: Cain, you are not the only one

wheezes

He still feels bad about it

that's cause Cain's a good lad

He's trying :<

they're all trying! AH yeah, that's the other bit

punishment acts like you have the right to punish someone.

which again, 'rights' and 'deserves' and 'justice'. when he very much feels like wardens are just slightly farther down the road than inmates as opposed to being on opposite sides of a thing.

like floofdoodle he would never in all his life feel like he has the 'right' to tell sweeney to do anything or that he knows more or could educate him on anything. if they're talking about something, he'll share his views and they can talk, even argue! but it's not... from an elevated position, in his estimation

so Red's an inmate? that just means he's in a shittier position. and a friend wants to help him deal with it if they're in a better position.

like he and Arthur were partners, he had the eyes and Arthur had the legs.

and even when he got pissed at Astarion, he was like 'look, I can't help you if you get me demoted and your behavior could do that so QUIT IT PLEASE'

Honestly the fact he was not immediately backhanded for sticking a knife in John was the most surprising part.

...these things happen when you're used to resting in unsafe places

don't underestimate the number of times arthur has been stabbed and shot and bitten

EXACTLY

I mean don't get me wrong he was not ungrateful. But very surprised yes.

Arthur is a right mess of scar tissue

'you ok tho' ERM NO ACTUALLY

nammah not as much bc of how their canon update happened but still a lot

and john will be a lot more Sad at you if you stab arthur than stab him

YES please don't stab Arthur

he loves his Arthur

He loves his Arthur so much Sokie might punch him but she doesn't like Arthur hurt, it's rude

At this point I can safely say Cain's got no intentions of stabbing Arthur. xD

Or anyone really, TO BE FAIR

No one's pissed him off that much.

clearly he hasn't met arthur

A feral cat off!

Cain's going to teach John how to fight

since tentacles will not be an option in Arkham

HELL yeah

Yessss I am excited for that

Gonna teach him to scrap like a little feral creechur

like Arthur!

he's gonna be very proud to show it off. look at how he's fighting like he's human! he might actually pass some day!

John...how are you so cute about learning how to fight

hardtostarboard john has seen plenty of arthur fighting like a feral creechur, don't worry. lots of gouging people's eyes out with his fingers

Delightful

John has many feral cats with claws

John is, in fact, a cat lady?

he is the cat surrounded by people who would kill everyone in this room and then themselves if something happened to him

it will never stop cracking me up that in a room of him and his CR, you are more likely to to be shanked by Anyone But Him

between him and Arthur, one of these men bites

Arthur is the biter, we know this, we love this about him

(...and then there's Sheehan. Who does not bite, but he WILL send his husband. Who does. And his cat. Who deflects.)

xD

/slides in late with Starbucks, way after the conversation has moved on

I know that this is not the OOC situation, Sweeney just sees all the times he can't be proactive, and that's why he hates that people aren't 'punished' (especially 'equally').

He feels like, because he's not the offender, he's the one that has to be 'part of the solution'. He's expected to show up for the apologies that people don't mean, the one who gets his hurt downplayed because he didn't die.

Even John actively dissuaded him from venting his anger (in an admittedly unhealthy way). He just doesn't know where to put it that's 'acceptable' but still effective, because he doesn't get the catharsis.

One of these days, he and Red need to just go and have a RANT

that's John's preferred way of getting through it.

It's certainly a possibility. John has a way of getting him to do things that surprise me. Though, by default, he's been pretty beaten down by the 'you can rant, but it doesn't matter, because it doesn't change anything'

the rant isn't about changing anything

it's about someone listening

and feeling it with you

nd not being alone in the feeling

the universe doesn't have to give a shit but someone you love does

says John

Like I said, I'm down. Who knows what might happen?

It's really interesting to see this convo happening (I've been in other tabs most of the day and still might have missed some lines loading this plurk) because Walter and Malcolm are talking right now about like. Deterrence/detention/incapacitation vs rehabilitation as goals

And John and Arthur in relation to that is really interesting. I'll probably be writing up more thoughts in my own commentary

Cause I was already thinking some stuff about Walters thoughts on them lmao

one point that I kinda didn't get to before the topic shifted

is that I do think that there is a responsibility to keep people safe as a warden

and that can feel like a punishment even if it isn't.

when it's more like "you just lost a privilege"

for being a dickhead and John is just fine with THOSE.

So random, but it reminds me of something my sister used to do when her kids were young. Instead of putting them in time out, she'd put the toy that they were misusing in time out instead. Like 'well, you can go do something else, just not that; make better choices'

YES

floofdoodle: yup yup!

Random question: if Sweeney gave his dog-shape bracelet for someone else to wear, would it work, or is it tailored to him specificaly?

floofdoodle: it would work for them!

the only semi-'tailored' bracelets are Florian's and now Sokie's, because they aren't built to use the kinetic energy alchemy transmutation.

they work on source of owner's magic. so they would still work if used by a magic user, even

he specifically doesn't tailor them so that the gift can be used however someone wishes, which can include letting someone else use it.

technically, it could be used for some indirect heals since it doesn't transfer wounds when someone's transformed

Gosh, he's just such a good bean

Thanks!

/slides this over

OH NO

floofdoodle: /returns fire

It’s true tho.

the cat is now under the couch.

WTF JOHN. WHY YOU GIVING ME LATE NIGHT FEELS

where is I want to stalk

nammah: it's less of a thread and more of a standing tradition

so when John and Red were having a talk once, they came to the fact that Red sometimes can't remember or hold onto the times when he's been helpful and effective

it was just after a flood where people were making stuff whenever they spoke (like the fairytale where like, little items come out while you're talking)

and John had just been through a really shitty patch so he kept making torn up stuffed animals

so what John did was decide that he'd repair the stuffed animals and give Red one for every time that Red had helped him to remind him, give him something tangible, to show that he helped someone, a friend, that he made a difference

so every once in a while John just drops off stuffed dolls (new ones at this point, since he's run out from the flood) to make sure to keep up with the times Red has been there for him, helped him, made a difference

so I dropped off a couple of stuffies in his inbox ^_^

a name for the fairy tale is Toads and Diamonds

oh no that's so sweet

weh

they're knit stuffies now since he's making them whole cloth

It fucking breaks Sweeney and it's so perfect. Sometimes he keeps a few on the nightstand (though not when he's staying at Laura's)

His favorite is probably the little monster that has the cart

Because that's something he does remember, but doesn't often think about, and it was a lasting kindness, instead of just a moment of one

"They're all a lasting kindness. My memory of it will last longer than any physical object."

"The things you do have an impact."

STOP, JOHN. JUST LET HIM THINK ABOUT YOUR PRETTY CART

Sorry, can't help it, loves you bunches

(though he does still have the cart)

(it lives in a corner of his kitchen and he uses it to deliver things STILL)

tinwateringcan mentions of your boy

aww ;;