maybe this belongs in it's own plurk and maybe I am just sensitive to the subject since I have reading a lot on feminism, but did you find the book to be a little sexist? Maybe that's the wrong word.

Maybe a little too grounded in the patriarchy?

What do you mean everyone dies including Dresden? I couldn't resist

not sure what you mean by patriarchal

Patriarchy. Like when Harry goes out of his way to open the door for Murphy... The author makes the point of saying it will piss her off, which is why he did it. It bugged me

I thought of it as a way for the author to add "old world" charm to the character, his old fashioned ways paid off with the vampiress.

And it gave the two main characters something other than not being able to stay out of bed many other paranormal series. Fill the pages up with....imho

Didn't find it objectionably so. Dresden is a wizard. They're grounded in the old world and ways. It seems logical that traditional gender

also emphasizes that fact that he is much older than the other characters, even though it's not apparent.

Rolls would appeal to him and be part of his nature. Also, he likes to tweak people's noses and poke at them a bit which is his main

Motivation for doing that to Murphy.

2xstitcher: That's a good point I didn't think of. All of you make good points. InvisibleWoman: That is true, he does seem to like to , as you say, tweak people

JennasGOBO: I like your view. He does seem to be a person out of time

Interesting points! Thanks!

didn't get that HD was older
got the feeling that this was Han shoots Gredo character definition for both HD & M - he holds doors and pulls out chairs and she's liberated

The Murphy character has had to fight her way to her position in a Mans Club and in her mind for her to show publicly acquiescing to a man makes her appear weak.

Yep. I do think that's a "shield" for her. She secretly LIKES being feminine and "being treated like a girl". She won't SHOW that

Because she fears OTHERS will see her as weak, not that SHE thinks it does.

Harry Dresden - Perry Mason
Murphy - Paul Drake
Morgan - Lt Tragg
Susan - Della

good stuff all!

Sees it as part of the noir-ish style of Dresden's narrative, something I haven't quite settled into yet (I'm still reading. ) but here's a

Question: are there any unattractively described women?

Because while his values may be traditional, he is still also subject to the patriarchal structure. Part of it is perception of the Other.

What he focuses on and if he may be tweaking more than just other characters. Just kicking around thoughts....

hard boiled noir detective genre ==> all dames are beautiful?

I think Harry is old-fashioned, and he says he knows it's not how things work, and I think it gets him into a lot of extra trouble. I think it's supposed to be a minor flaw, his needing to protect "the weak"

and women are in that category, which is irritating. Murphy is someone who challenges that idea, sort of. I don't know if Harry ever quite loses his White Knight tendencies. He certainly doesn't stop feeling

responsible for people he thinks he needs to protect. Perhaps one of the arcs for his character is learning to choose his battles?

There are some unattractive women in the story, but (like your average stereotype of a guy), he doesn't harp on and on about ugly people when there are beautiful women and ugly monsters to notice.

that part of the reason Harry is protective of women & sees them as needing protection is because he lost his mother at an early age and could not protect her...

And someone else when he was growing up.

And his childhood self, I think.