orenoturn
11 years ago
RL stuff and what not for those who still remember I exist Depression and Art-related things
latest #208
orenoturn
11 years ago
zzz
orenoturn
11 years ago
oh yes LJ also needs to stop it with the spam mail
orenoturn
11 years ago
I would be incredibly happy and would appreciate it greatly if it could do thank
立即下載
orenoturn
11 years ago
that*
orenoturn
11 years ago
z z z z z z
lucathia
11 years ago
nuge!!! hugs
lucathia
11 years ago
how you feel is understandable. it's not easy to live off just art. with your deadline coming, i imagine the pressure is at an all time high now. are you only considering freelance art? what about working in
lucathia
11 years ago
some art related job?
fury shot
11 years ago
you know this six month deal you cut is bs, right
fury shot
11 years ago
big shots in the entertainment industry have had spectacular failures before they actually succeeded
fury shot
11 years ago
e.g. George Lucas
fury shot
11 years ago
big names in the industry have had flops even after they became big
fury shot
11 years ago
Walt Disney Studios nearly closed at one point, Dreamworks actually lost money with Rise of the Guardians
fury shot
11 years ago
six months isn't enough time to even get your name out there, let alone start living off of it
fury shot
11 years ago
you think most big names out there are big successes because you haven't heard about their failure stories and i guarantee to you that even for famous, successful people in the industry
fury shot
11 years ago
they have more things and ideas and projects that never happened than huge successes
fury shot
11 years ago
sure you could strike gold on your first swing but for the most part it'll take years of digging and a lot of rock before you do
fury shot
11 years ago
there are also plenty of people who were told they had no talent before they actually hit it big, there are famous people who at some point had nowhere to live and every reason to give up trying etc
fury shot
11 years ago
the road to success isn't a straight line, it's winding and has lots of branching paths and dead ends and honestly, expecting yourself to get the right path on the first try is dooming yourself to failure
fury shot
11 years ago
if you don't stand up for your dreams and go for them, nobody else will do it for you, man.
fury shot
11 years ago
if you ask me your mistake is being dead set on a single path and not being willing to consider alternatives which could help pave the road and honestly, I didn't get anywhere myself until I realized that. :Va
orenoturn
11 years ago
garbagebug thank youuu <33 I'm glad to be back too!! it feels like I got a whole load lifted off my shoulders, and I grew a little haha
orenoturn
11 years ago
lucathia the pressure was part of the reason why I was freaking out! I talked to my dad and well, sort of got over it, though I'm not sure about the conclusion
orenoturn
11 years ago
lucathia I am considering art-related jobs! I think there's a new game studio that's opened around here. I've only got a month to go though so I'm not sure if I should go for it...
orenoturn
11 years ago
dapperpants Neon's hour is my favourite part of rants as always, how are you so informed of this industry *o* I did think that it's full of ups and downs, and um...
orenoturn
11 years ago
I am fully aware that sixth months isn't exactly enough to produce a big success, but I wasn't thinking of anything of that scale at all!
orenoturn
11 years ago
I just wanted to show my dad that art is a respectable job and you can make a decent living off that, that's what I failed in
orenoturn
11 years ago
do you think people support me for the sake of supporting their friends' dreams, or do people genuinely enjoy my work and would like to see more? -- no wait
orenoturn
11 years ago
that's a bit of a stupid question I guess um
orenoturn
11 years ago
I sort of... I dunno, I only had 6 months, I figured I should just focus on one area and not try out too many things at once as I'm not good at that.
orenoturn
11 years ago
what other options did you think I had?
orenoturn
11 years ago
(also yes I can't sleep so I'm going to sit here)
fury shot
11 years ago
sorry i took my cat to the vet hmm
fury shot
11 years ago
i think it's both - at first when you've yet to make something, people support you because you're their friend
fury shot
11 years ago
and after you've made something, it's both, if it's from a friend
orenoturn
11 years ago
(oh goodness I hope that visit to the vet went well why are you concerning yourself with me neonnnnn ;___;-)
fury shot
11 years ago
(my cat is resting now ): )
fury shot
11 years ago
as for options, there are several, even if not immediately obvious
fury shot
11 years ago
you went the toughest route, which was work on a personal project with next to no experience - which in itself is a big time sink
fury shot
11 years ago
dolls is a very lovely project! but it is not conductive to what your goal in those six months was - make a decent living off of art
fury shot
11 years ago
there are two ways to make money off of art over the internet - one is work for other people and the other is become popular
fury shot
11 years ago
and becoming popular takes time and does not give any money until after you're popular
orenoturn
11 years ago
ahh I guess so...
fury shot
11 years ago
the most reliable way to try and get anything done in six months would've been to work for or with someone else from the start
orenoturn
11 years ago
I felt that dolls and the other miscellanous projects I had to do at first were important to give me credibility
orenoturn
11 years ago
after that I did open commissions but no one responded oops
nugeeeeeee
fury shot
11 years ago
someone else who had something already, like money or the popularity (and by proxy the public)
fury shot
11 years ago
this is a super silly example but i feel like the cake otome game got as much exposure as it did strictly because lore, the writer, is already decently known in the otome scene on tumblr
fury shot
11 years ago
she has a lot of followers that are otoge players
fury shot
11 years ago
so any otoge she pimps will get their attention
fury shot
11 years ago
if i had made it by myself it would not have gone around as much
orenoturn
11 years ago
ahh yeah I know lore as well from LSF
fury shot
11 years ago
you don't have the popularity needed to make enough money from commissions
fury shot
11 years ago
tbh, i don't either
orenoturn
11 years ago
although I've talked to her partner artist, auro, more than her --
orenoturn
11 years ago
awww
fury shot
11 years ago
the people who follow me are the people who play my game, not the people who like my art
fury shot
11 years ago
i can make some money off of commissions, sure
fury shot
11 years ago
but not enough for a living
fury shot
11 years ago
internet popularity and skill are completely independent from one another, though some skill is required for popularity
fury shot
11 years ago
popularity is not required for skill
orenoturn
11 years ago
:-o
fury shot
11 years ago
you could be the best artist out there and if nobody knew of your stuff you'd still not be selling
fury shot
11 years ago
you could land a job with a company if you had an impressive portfolio, sure, but not online commissions
fury shot
11 years ago
popularity is 90% of it
fury shot
11 years ago
people often want art by their favorite artists more than art by someone with skill
fury shot
11 years ago
and this is no new thing, see artists who starved in life and were glorified after death
fury shot
11 years ago
it's the same art, all that's changed is how people look at the artist
orenoturn
11 years ago
... that's interesting
orenoturn
11 years ago
I never thought of it that way
orenoturn
11 years ago
it's true that I never cared for popularity, I just want to show my parents that art is a respectable job -- so these six months were about my parents
fury shot
11 years ago
that is the thing - becoming ~internet popular~ would've helped you achieve your goal
orenoturn
11 years ago
fiddlesticks, why did I not realise that ): though oh well
orenoturn
11 years ago
being popular does not suit me
fury shot
11 years ago
ehh if it helps
orenoturn
11 years ago
i'm gonna sit here in my corner with neon
fury shot
11 years ago
being ~popular~ has plenty of downsides, like people hating on you for no reason
fury shot
11 years ago
but unless you have a company to hire you or a sponsor, popularity is everything when selling art
fury shot
11 years ago
even if you're pitching your work to galleries
fury shot
11 years ago
a popular artist will get more opportunities and more buyers, it's inevitable
orenoturn
11 years ago
wait neon
orenoturn is
11 years ago
it popularity or visibility that's important? because they're subtly different
orenoturn
11 years ago
like people could know I exist without liking my works I guess
orenoturn
11 years ago
up to individual tastes and all that
fury shot
11 years ago
popularity is more important than visibility, people who like your work will spend money on it.
fury shot
11 years ago
visibility obviously helps, it's advertisement
fury shot
11 years ago
but it's pointless if you're advertising to the wrong crowd, for instance
fury shot
11 years ago
ultimately though people have to like what you make, views alone won't make you popular
fury shot
11 years ago
for things like games sometimes people will buy stuff blindly
fury shot
11 years ago
but in entertainment as a whole people generally spend money on things or authors or actors or artists or writers they like
orenoturn
11 years ago
hmm that makes sense
orenoturn
11 years ago
wait so
fury shot
11 years ago
and if they like an artist or writer or w/e enough they may support them even if they don't particularly like their latest work
fury shot
11 years ago
I bought a game called Chantelise strictly out of support for what their localizers/publishers in NA are doing
fury shot
11 years ago
the game itself isn't very good
fury shot
11 years ago
I got Hakuoki and never played it but I got it to support XSeed's decision of localizing an otoge, and so forth - they could pitch the game to hell and back but in the end it's the otome game lovers
fury shot
11 years ago
who will buy their game.
orenoturn
11 years ago
... that makes sense
orenoturn
11 years ago
I guess popularity isn't something you can grow in six months v_v ah well
orenoturn
11 years ago
I gave it my best shot
orenoturn
11 years ago
...
orenoturn
11 years ago
fury shot
11 years ago
well, you can, but it's... very hard to do
fury shot
11 years ago
also making mistakes and failing is part of the process!!
fury shot
11 years ago
you don't need an imaginary deadline to prove yourself to your parents
orenoturn
11 years ago
OH
orenoturn
11 years ago
that is true
fury shot
11 years ago
my dad used to talk crap about drawing and how it was useless and shit and he died before I could show him that he was wrong about that (and so many other things)
orenoturn
11 years ago
I guess I was just a bit disappointed, I started thinking that maybe my parents are right
orenoturn
11 years ago
I'm just a fish who belongs in the losers pile
fury shot
11 years ago
the fish that stop fighting are the ones that get fished up and tossed onto the losers pile!!!
orenoturn
11 years ago
sdfjgjdf
fury shot
11 years ago
i think you should keep trying but i also think!!! you need a plan.
orenoturn
11 years ago
right...
fury shot
11 years ago
let's say popularity will help you achieve your goal - becoming popular can be a thing that just happens but most people have to build it up very slowly
orenoturn
11 years ago
I'll think on that
orenoturn
11 years ago
--
fury shot
11 years ago
so you could think of a way to build it up!!
fury shot
11 years ago
my route was cheaty but it worked, which was work with a popular franchise
orenoturn
11 years ago
otoges?
fury shot
11 years ago
it ended up being way more successful than anticipated so I stuck with it, but before vdex
orenoturn
11 years ago
oh
fury shot
11 years ago
i had a comic about poképeople
fury shot
11 years ago
and before the comic
fury shot
11 years ago
i did freebie requests of poképeople in a pokémon forum
fury shot
11 years ago
...which made me popular with the small pool of forumgoers very quickly
fury shot
11 years ago
those people then started reading my comic, which got a little bit of popularity, enough to start vdex
fury shot
11 years ago
one thing led to the other
orenoturn
11 years ago
ahhh...
fury shot
11 years ago
and now there is a small pool of vdexers who will at least take a look at most of the things i would make
fury shot
11 years ago
because they've seen my stuff before
fury shot
11 years ago
but i started on my own - honestly, you don't have to
orenoturn
11 years ago
I guess that since my followers are people who've tried out dolls and other games I helped out with, my 'pokemon starting point' are VNs
fury shot
11 years ago
i am still open for help with dudes, if you are still open to doing that
fury shot
11 years ago
if nothing else it will expose your art to everyone who's already following me
orenoturn
11 years ago
OH yeah perhaps after the six months are up, and I'm no longer taking commissions 'cause I'm pretty sure I'll have no time
fury shot
11 years ago
and since it's not your own project you have a lot less to worry about in terms of coordinating, scripting etc
fury shot
11 years ago
it's a start, at least
orenoturn
11 years ago
thank you so much neonnnn
orenoturn
11 years ago
how can I ever thank you.
orenoturn
11 years ago
you're wonderful ):
fury shot
11 years ago
you may not want adoptables to be your ultimate goal - just like I do want to work on VNs and other types of games, not just vdex-like games
fury shot
11 years ago
but it's a step, not the end of the road
fury shot
11 years ago
and a step that could give some financial return, if nothing else
fury shot
11 years ago
it may not be enough to make a living off of, but the thing about internet games
fury shot is
11 years ago
that people spend money on them.
fury shot
11 years ago
they're free to play, but little paid content here and there....
orenoturn
11 years ago
ahaaaa
orenoturn
11 years ago
I WILL
orenoturn
11 years ago
get back to neon in one month
orenoturn
11 years ago
when the deal expires
orenoturn
11 years ago
right now I think I'd like to tie up all my loose VN ends |D
orenoturn
11 years ago
(I just checked my e-mail, got a new job; will do my best with that like it's my finaleee)
fury shot
11 years ago
(good luck!!)
fury shot
11 years ago
but yes the offer is open and even if you do take it don't think it's the end of your VN projects or anything!!
fury shot
11 years ago
not like "oh i can't have success with this so i'll try something else" but rather "i'll do this other thing because it'll help me achieve success with this"
orenoturn
11 years ago
yeah, I get the idea
orenoturn
11 years ago
I'm open to trying out different things! I don't just want to make VN games anyway, my skills dull if all I do are sprites and bgs or sth ahaha
orenoturn
11 years ago
zaihou: LATE BUT TY FOR THE CONCERN
fury shot
11 years ago
i was also thinking of some changes to how it's handled, to make the art simpler to make, so it should leave you with time
fury shot
11 years ago
for other things too
orenoturn
11 years ago
oh wow
fury shot
11 years ago
two stages instead of four and the 2nd "fully grown" stage would be for princes only, not all homun
orenoturn
11 years ago
there are homuns other than princes? :-o
fury shot
11 years ago
that makes it way easier to have more variation between homun
fury shot
11 years ago
yes the ones that haven't made it to prince status
fury shot
11 years ago
either because they don't have enough of your kokoro energy yet or because you don't want to princify them
fury shot
11 years ago
(you monster)
fury shot
11 years ago
so it'd be like a chibi and a normal-sized version of the same guy, and customization would be mostly for avatars i think?? keep things simple within reason.
orenoturn
11 years ago
ohhh
orenoturn
11 years ago
two stages would definitely keep things very simple!
orenoturn
11 years ago
maybe we can add more stages as we go along too
orenoturn
11 years ago
even if we start with two
fury shot
11 years ago
yeah if stuff goes smoothly! but to start i think simpler is best
fury shot
11 years ago
can even start w/ just one since fully grown is prince only, so it can start w/o the prince functionality and get it added later
fury shot
11 years ago
beta stage games can get away with those things
orenoturn
11 years ago
:-o
orenoturn
11 years ago
so just the chibi stage, or...?
fury shot
11 years ago
let's see, chibi stage is all people would have until they got enough kokoro energy to make a prince out of the homun
fury shot
11 years ago
so it has a higher priority
fury shot
11 years ago
it's more important to get the game started than the grown stage, if that makes sense?
orenoturn
11 years ago
that's true!
orenoturn
11 years ago
sure thing sure thing
orenoturn
11 years ago
in about a month's time?
fury shot
11 years ago
sorry was checking on cat
fury shot
11 years ago
sounds fine to me o/
haru's ass
11 years ago
hmmm i have literally zero personal experience in the matter
haru's ass
11 years ago
but i do think a lot of the points neon makes is true, esp. re: popularity
haru's ass
11 years ago
like gigi raised $60000 in a month for her cucumber quest comic
haru's ass
11 years ago
but it's important to remember that 1. she had followers from hiimdaisy, and 2. she was running cucumber quest for a year (ie, she was making no income off her webcomic for that year) before doing a kickstarter
haru's ass
11 years ago
it's rare to be widely popular right off the bat with neither experience nor a name
haru's ass
11 years ago
iirc even when it comes to entrepreneurs; it takes approximately 8 to 10 failures before people become successful
haru's ass
11 years ago
but it's the accumulation of experience that helps that, i think
haru's ass
11 years ago
i don't say this to be negative about the process, but more just to say that it - like all things - takes time.
haru's ass
11 years ago
i think it's even more difficult to make a large sum of money off something as niche as an otoge, since that caters to a very specific (and small) group of people
haru's ass
11 years ago
the only doujin VNs i can think of that became widely popular are the things Type-Moon did (Melty Blood, fighting game cross VN; Fate/stay night, VN and also PORN PORN PORN; Tsukihime)
orenoturn
11 years ago
GAH sorry for the slow replies, plurk died for a couple of days for me! a couple of other people have told me the same thing actually
orenoturn
11 years ago
my problem was that I didn't have enough time to build the following I need
orenoturn
11 years ago
so hopefully, things will get better as I stick to it from now on. thank you so much, Aniki!! elendia I think VNs are starting to become more and more popular
orenoturn
11 years ago
... judging from how well otoges are selling anyway (looking at Voltage here)
orenoturn
11 years ago
I like to think the climate isn't so bad; there's still a healthy appetite for otoges that are in english as there aren't many of them at all.
haru's ass
11 years ago
i'm not really sure what voltage is, but if that's like gree then yeah, i can see that!! i think mobile VNs are really popular because they're portable, so you can play them whenever you want
haru's ass
11 years ago
whether that's going out for food or shopping or during class when you're bored, etc. portability is one of the main selling points for it, i'd think
haru's ass
11 years ago
and handheld smartphones are becoming affordable for middle class women, especially in the US, europe, and japan, etc
haru's ass
11 years ago
i think the portability and ease of playing is one reason why mobile-based VNs are steadily and very quickly gaining popularity. i'd go as far as to say they're probably much more popular than traditional PC VN
orenoturn
11 years ago
elendia I agree! Let's not forget translations too -- english translations of be my princess etc have really encouraged the growth of otoges. I am excited for it. :-D
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