zzz

oh yes LJ also needs to stop it with the spam mail

I would be incredibly happy and would appreciate it greatly if it could do thank

that*

z z z z z z

nuge!!! hugs

how you feel is understandable. it's not easy to live off just art. with your deadline coming, i imagine the pressure is at an all time high now. are you only considering freelance art? what about working in

some art related job?

you know this six month deal you cut is bs, right

big shots in the entertainment industry have had spectacular failures before they actually succeeded

e.g. George Lucas

big names in the industry have had flops even after they became big

Walt Disney Studios nearly closed at one point, Dreamworks actually lost money with Rise of the Guardians

six months isn't enough time to even get your name out there, let alone start living off of it

you think most big names out there are big successes because you haven't heard about their failure stories and i guarantee to you that even for famous, successful people in the industry

they have more things and ideas and projects that never happened than huge successes

sure you could strike gold on your first swing but for the most part it'll take years of digging and a lot of rock before you do

there are also plenty of people who were told they had no talent before they actually hit it big, there are famous people who at some point had nowhere to live and every reason to give up trying etc

the road to success isn't a straight line, it's winding and has lots of branching paths and dead ends and honestly, expecting yourself to get the right path on the first try is dooming yourself to failure

if you don't stand up for your dreams and go for them, nobody else will do it for you, man.

if you ask me your mistake is being dead set on a single path and not being willing to consider alternatives which could help pave the road and honestly, I didn't get anywhere myself until I realized that. :Va

garbagebug thank youuu <33 I'm glad to be back too!! it feels like I got a whole load lifted off my shoulders, and I grew a little haha

lucathia the pressure was part of the reason why I was freaking out! I talked to my dad and well, sort of got over it, though I'm not sure about the conclusion

lucathia I am considering art-related jobs! I think there's a new game studio that's opened around here. I've only got a month to go though so I'm not sure if I should go for it...

dapperpants Neon's hour is my favourite part of rants as always, how are you so informed of this industry *o* I did think that it's full of ups and downs, and um...

I am fully aware that sixth months isn't exactly enough to produce a big success, but I wasn't thinking of anything of that scale at all!

I just wanted to show my dad that art is a respectable job and you can make a decent living off that, that's what I failed in

do you think people support me for the sake of supporting their friends' dreams, or do people genuinely enjoy my work and would like to see more? -- no wait

that's a bit of a stupid question I guess um

I sort of... I dunno, I only had 6 months, I figured I should just focus on one area and not try out too many things at once as I'm not good at that.

what other options did you think I had?

(also yes I can't sleep so I'm going to sit here)

sorry i took my cat to the vet hmm

i think it's both - at first when you've yet to make something, people support you because you're their friend

and after you've made something, it's both, if it's from a friend

(oh goodness I hope that visit to the vet went well why are you concerning yourself with me neonnnnn ;___

(my cat is resting now ): )

as for options, there are several, even if not immediately obvious

you went the toughest route, which was work on a personal project with next to no experience - which in itself is a big time sink

dolls is a very lovely project! but it is not conductive to what your goal in those six months was - make a decent living off of art

there are two ways to make money off of art over the internet - one is work for other people and the other is become popular

and becoming popular takes time and does not give any money until after you're popular

ahh I guess so...

the most reliable way to try and get anything done in six months would've been to work for or with someone else from the start

I felt that dolls and the other miscellanous projects I had to do at first were important to give me credibility

after that I did open commissions but no one responded oops

nugeeeeeee

someone else who had something already, like money or the popularity (and by proxy the public)

this is a super silly example but i feel like the cake otome game got as much exposure as it did strictly because lore, the writer, is already decently known in the otome scene on tumblr

she has a lot of followers that are otoge players

so any otoge she pimps will get their attention

if i had made it by myself it would not have gone around as much

ahh yeah I know lore as well from LSF

you don't have the popularity needed to make enough money from commissions

tbh, i don't either

although I've talked to her partner artist, auro, more than her --

awww

the people who follow me are the people who play my game, not the people who like my art

i can make some money off of commissions, sure

but not enough for a living

internet popularity and skill are completely independent from one another, though some skill is required for popularity

popularity is not required for skill

you could be the best artist out there and if nobody knew of your stuff you'd still not be selling

you could land a job with a company if you had an impressive portfolio, sure, but not online commissions

popularity is 90% of it

people often want art by their favorite artists more than art by someone with skill

and this is no new thing, see artists who starved in life and were glorified after death

it's the same art, all that's changed is how people look at the artist

... that's interesting

I never thought of it that way

it's true that I never cared for popularity, I just want to show my parents that art is a respectable job -- so these six months were about my parents

that is the thing - becoming ~internet popular~ would've helped you achieve your goal

fiddlesticks, why did I not realise that ): though oh well

being popular does not suit me

ehh if it helps

i'm gonna sit here in my corner with neon

being ~popular~ has plenty of downsides, like people hating on you for no reason

but unless you have a company to hire you or a sponsor, popularity is everything when selling art

even if you're pitching your work to galleries

a popular artist will get more opportunities and more buyers, it's inevitable

wait neon

it popularity or visibility that's important? because they're subtly different

like people could know I exist without liking my works I guess

up to individual tastes and all that

popularity is more important than visibility, people who like your work will spend money on it.

visibility obviously helps, it's advertisement

but it's pointless if you're advertising to the wrong crowd, for instance

ultimately though people have to like what you make, views alone won't make you popular

for things like games sometimes people will buy stuff blindly

but in entertainment as a whole people generally spend money on things or authors or actors or artists or writers they like

hmm that makes sense

wait so

and if they like an artist or writer or w/e enough they may support them even if they don't particularly like their latest work

I bought a game called Chantelise strictly out of support for what their localizers/publishers in NA are doing

the game itself isn't very good

I got Hakuoki and never played it but I got it to support XSeed's decision of localizing an otoge, and so forth - they could pitch the game to hell and back but in the end it's the otome game lovers

who will buy their game.

... that makes sense

I guess popularity isn't something you can grow in six months v_v ah well

I gave it my best shot

...

well, you can, but it's... very hard to do

also making mistakes and failing is part of the process!!

you don't need an imaginary deadline to prove yourself to your parents

OH

that is true

my dad used to talk crap about drawing and how it was useless and shit and he died before I could show him that he was wrong about that (and so many other things)

I guess I was just a bit disappointed, I started thinking that maybe my parents are right

I'm just a fish who belongs in the losers pile

the fish that stop fighting are the ones that get fished up and tossed onto the losers pile!!!

sdfjgjdf

i think you should keep trying but i also think!!! you need a plan.

right...

let's say popularity will help you achieve your goal - becoming popular can be a thing that just happens but most people have to build it up very slowly

I'll think on that

--

so you could think of a way to build it up!!

my route was cheaty but it worked, which was work with a popular franchise

otoges?

it ended up being way more successful than anticipated so I stuck with it, but before vdex

oh

i had a comic about poképeople

and before the comic

i did freebie requests of poképeople in a pokémon forum

...which made me popular with the small pool of forumgoers very quickly

those people then started reading my comic, which got a little bit of popularity, enough to start vdex

one thing led to the other

ahhh...

and now there is a small pool of vdexers who will at least take a look at most of the things i would make

because they've seen my stuff before

but i started on my own - honestly, you don't have to

I guess that since my followers are people who've tried out dolls and other games I helped out with, my 'pokemon starting point' are VNs

i am still open for help with dudes, if you are still open to doing that

if nothing else it will expose your art to everyone who's already following me

OH yeah perhaps after the six months are up, and I'm no longer taking commissions 'cause I'm pretty sure I'll have no time

and since it's not your own project you have a lot less to worry about in terms of coordinating, scripting etc

it's a start, at least

thank you so much neonnnn

how can I ever thank you.

you're wonderful ):

you may not want adoptables to be your ultimate goal - just like I do want to work on VNs and other types of games, not just vdex-like games

but it's a step, not the end of the road

and a step that could give some financial return, if nothing else

it may not be enough to make a living off of, but the thing about internet games

that people spend money on them.

they're free to play, but little paid content here and there....

ahaaaa

I WILL

get back to neon in one month

when the deal expires

right now I think I'd like to tie up all my loose VN ends |D

(I just checked my e-mail, got a new job; will do my best with that like it's my finaleee)

(good luck!!)

but yes the offer is open and even if you do take it don't think it's the end of your VN projects or anything!!

not like "oh i can't have success with this so i'll try something else" but rather "i'll do this other thing because it'll help me achieve success with this"

yeah, I get the idea

I'm open to trying out different things! I don't just want to make VN games anyway, my skills dull if all I do are sprites and bgs or sth ahaha

zaihou: LATE BUT TY FOR THE CONCERN

i was also thinking of some changes to how it's handled, to make the art simpler to make, so it should leave you with time

for other things too

oh wow

two stages instead of four and the 2nd "fully grown" stage would be for princes only, not all homun

there are homuns other than princes?

that makes it way easier to have more variation between homun

yes the ones that haven't made it to prince status

either because they don't have enough of your kokoro energy yet or because you don't want to princify them

(you monster)

so it'd be like a chibi and a normal-sized version of the same guy, and customization would be mostly for avatars i think?? keep things simple within reason.

ohhh

two stages would definitely keep things very simple!

maybe we can add more stages as we go along too

even if we start with two

yeah if stuff goes smoothly! but to start i think simpler is best

can even start w/ just one since fully grown is prince only, so it can start w/o the prince functionality and get it added later

beta stage games can get away with those things

so just the chibi stage, or...?

let's see, chibi stage is all people would have until they got enough kokoro energy to make a prince out of the homun

so it has a higher priority

it's more important to get the game started than the grown stage, if that makes sense?

that's true!

sure thing sure thing

in about a month's time?

sorry was checking on cat

sounds fine to me o/

hmmm i have literally zero personal experience in the matter

but i do think a lot of the points neon makes is true, esp. re: popularity

like gigi raised $60000 in a month for her cucumber quest comic

but it's important to remember that 1. she had followers from hiimdaisy, and 2. she was running cucumber quest for a year (ie, she was making no income off her webcomic for that year) before doing a kickstarter

it's rare to be widely popular right off the bat with neither experience nor a name

iirc even when it comes to entrepreneurs; it takes approximately 8 to 10 failures before people become successful

but it's the accumulation of experience that helps that, i think

i don't say this to be negative about the process, but more just to say that it - like all things - takes time.

i think it's even more difficult to make a large sum of money off something as niche as an otoge, since that caters to a very specific (and small) group of people

the only doujin VNs i can think of that became widely popular are the things Type-Moon did (Melty Blood, fighting game cross VN; Fate/stay night, VN and also PORN PORN PORN; Tsukihime)

GAH sorry for the slow replies, plurk died for a couple of days for me! a couple of other people have told me the same thing actually

my problem was that I didn't have enough time to build the following I need

so hopefully, things will get better as I stick to it from now on. thank you so much, Aniki!! elendia I think VNs are starting to become more and more popular

... judging from how well otoges are selling anyway (looking at Voltage here)

I like to think the climate isn't so bad; there's still a healthy appetite for otoges that are in english as there aren't many of them at all.

i'm not really sure what voltage is, but if that's like gree then yeah, i can see that!! i think mobile VNs are really popular because they're portable, so you can play them whenever you want

whether that's going out for food or shopping or during class when you're bored, etc. portability is one of the main selling points for it, i'd think

and handheld smartphones are becoming affordable for middle class women, especially in the US, europe, and japan, etc

i think the portability and ease of playing is one reason why mobile-based VNs are steadily and very quickly gaining popularity. i'd go as far as to say they're probably much more popular than traditional PC VN

elendia I agree! Let's not forget translations too -- english translations of be my princess etc have really encouraged the growth of otoges. I am excited for it.