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They even say all the stuff that's happened for me to make my gfm is my fault.

I realized that what I said in that comment was wrong, I said as much to everyone on my timeline.

Probably the only thing they were right about is that I was ignorant as to what forced feminization is.

I apologized, but apparently it's just an act... that I just like to fetishize... Why do the mistakes I made in my first year... "ship-pushing" (with legitimate reasoning to believe the other person was interested, not to mention not even knowing what ship-pushing was at the time) and "asking for tags" still haunting me, and only getting worse...

It's not that. I am more afraid of how others will think of the character (and me... which is exactly what happened) and if they will be triggered by such a character. Or at least I used to be.

I got some advice from a friend who said, just don't fixate on it. If someone's offended then it's their deal for not looking at my opt out post. I'm not so sure anymore.

I have started to not mention it and just link my opt out post at the top of tls and logs I post...

It has other cw's on it, so it's not the only thing on there.

Sure, I could just stop playing Kainé... but they even brought Zelda into it.

I realize showing this will probably make some of you unfriend me, but I promise this isn't what I'm trying to do.

Guys, what should I do? Is something like this even fixable? How can I make it right?

I would rather not leave. I've made a lot of amazing friends and this hobby brings me joy and entertainment. But if I'm hurting people...

I'm the type of person who hates it when people are mad at me and all I want to do is make it right when they are... but I don't know what to do here.

Hurting people or making them feel bad is the absolute last thing I ever want to do.

I might be stupid like they say, dumber than a box of rocks, but it's not like I haven't tried to learn the correct way of things.

Am I really hurting this many people? I'm so sorry if I have ever hurt you. I promise I never meant whatever I did out of malice...

Anyway, I don't know what to do. Probably gonna try to vanish for awhile, except for my RL friends. Just know I'm grateful for all of you who have threaded with me and been my friend for these two years I've been in this hobby. Thank you.

If you don't believe this stuff is true, and still wanna be my friend, I'll be on Discord. If you don't have it and want it, comment here and I'll pp you. Otherwise, I think I'm gonna deplurk.

As someone who's been on WG before: it's not worth your time.

Once someone has their opinion of you, that's their opinion and you cannot do anything to change it.

It's best if you just take what you've learned and as long as you aren't harming people, just keep having fun.

It's important to remember that in the wake of someone's happiness there will always be someone else's misery. It is literally impossible to make everyone else happy, so that kind of thinking will always lead to disappointment

I like you and I like playing with you.

Even if there is truth to some of this, I like to learn from personal interactions.

Take some time for you and learn from your mistakes and I am positive you'll be alright. You've been nice and I enjoy playing off of your character

I like playing with you! C:

I have an opt-out post as well as an hmd that are totally open just so i can receive feedback from others who want me to grow. It's always best to avoid places like WG

If people can't actually talk to you to address things that make them uncomfortable, they're not being productive or mature

But you also have to be mindful of how you respond, and it's easy to feel super defensive. I used to be like that all the time (not saying you are because I'm not digging into this while I'm at work, I'm just referencing my own past experiences)

Apparently i make people uncomfortable but i don't know how or why and if they don't want to play with me, that's their business

Just for context: I didn't click the link as I avoid wg. There is a time and place for anon stuff, but it's not behind people's backs where if there is a legitimate concern the person being targeted has a good chance of not seeing it. Most of what I hear about wg are people being petty, picking on tiny things that don't matter, blowing things out of

Proportion and outright lying at times and because some people just love to hate and stir things up they don't care who they hurt so long as they get to feel superior by dragging other people down.

It sucks, but there are people like that in basically any hobby. Wg just gives them a place to be anon together to stir things up. So the painful blunt part is: you can't fix this. Mean girls are going to mean girl no matter what you say or do.

The best you can do is learn from mistakes because we all make them. We all have dumb moments and we all start somewhere

If there is a real problem then someone can tell you so to yourself. How are you supposed to know if something is a problem if people don't say anything? Someone going to wg instead of talking to you is not someone you want to be playing with anyway

The way I handle knowing wg is a thing is trying not to care about it. If I get mentioned on there and people decide not to tag with me because of it then they're probably people I wouldn't want to play with anyway so no real loss there.

Fighting against is what they want. They don't care about you. They just care about the drama and that by making you feel bad they feel like they're 'winning'. Don't let them win. (easier said than done - trust me I know) Forget about wg. Don't go to it. Don't care what they're saying.

Put up and opt-out post. Don't question those who use it or their whys. Just go: sure thing and don't tag them. Regardless if their reason is for something real and personal or something stupid they saw on wg - an opt-out post means you're both not wasting your time going after tags and threads that won't go anywhere

If there is a legitimate issue then you can try having an anon post on your journal where people can bring up concerns they may be too shy to mention to your face. Although I may wait a bit before doing that. I'm sure some jerk will be going: tee-hee! Are mean comments made someone sad! Aren't we special we hurt someone's feelings?

And then they will try to continue that because they're riding a bullying high.

You can't win with a bully on the internet. All you can do is ignore them and have your fun. The people who like you will tag with you. Focus on them and the positives. Not whatever is being said on wg.

Again, easier said then done. Take some time. Step away. RP is supposed to be fun. Not stressful and upsetting. If you're not having fun don't force it. But, you've always been respectful to me and I like tagging with you. So, it after a breather you want to still try having fun? Then keep on tagging.

This hobby is still big enough that there are just going to be some people everyone doesn't gel with and that's OK. You don't have to tag everyone and everyone doesn't have to tag you. Just focus on the people you do enjoy tagging with.

Sorry if there are a lot of typos in this. I've just woken up and have been getting ready for work at the same time. It just felt like you could use another voice chiming in to say: don't stress about wg. Just try to have fun.

It's wankgate

Ignore them

I know it's hard, but they're the cancer of DWRP

Also apparently that thread is frozen. That means the wankgate mods themselves found it too petty. It's bullies finding other bullies going too far

This comm is poisonous

Wankgate is 100% worth ignoring

ignore it tbh... as long as you have an opt out so people can not tag with you, let them use it and just play with the people who want to do stuff with you i guess? wankgate in general is something i pay 0 attention to anyway and my life is happier for it, lol

yeah seconded on "even bullies thought this was too much bullying"

iirc that thread was exactly one or two people with a bug up their butt telling lies, and a bunch of other people who don't know you, wouldn't recognize you on sight, and probably won't ever remember you just speculating for sport

if they have a real problem they can use your clearly visible opt-out

you have been nothing but honest about being willing to learn from your mistakes

idk don't let the bastards grind you down, that's what they want

wg may seem terrible but most of the time it's not what everyone thinks, it's just a small handful of people with nothing to do or who just like to stir shit because they can. you should take a break if that would help but ultimately do what you want and have fun, they don't matter.

There's a lot of comments just straight up making shit up and assuming things about you - and that's their problem, not yours

I'm sorry if this makes people assume the worst, but if they're stupid enough to take wg and the commenters behind it at face value, then they're not worth playing with, anyway

I've always enjoyed playing with you. I don't think you play your characters like creepy fetish fuel or whatever. Kainé has depth and you're great at playing her personality

Anyone claiming you're just playing her for the fetish clearly hasn't played with your Kainé to know you've got more going for her than that

But yeah, as others have said... ignore that shit. It looks like it's a couple toxic people as opposed to it being a whole bunch of people

I come back to this after talking to my therapist about it. She said much the same thing. That I should have fun and do what I want. Which is to still play with all of you guys.

Good

I have fun playing with you, and anyone trying to make you leave the hobby you enjoy isn't worth your time

I do know for a fact that one of those people Tifa. She said something from a pm that only 5 people know about. And I don't think the other 4 would go on wg

Another friend commented on the closeness of the time of the comments.

i don't think it will do you any good to speculate about who did it

best to just let it go and avoid the people who don't seem to appreciate your presence like we do

Either everyone jumped on this as soon as it was posted, or it was the same people

I concur, it's not productive at all to try and figure out who is making what comments

Thinking of it this way makes me feel better. That it's the same shitty people who can't let shit go and continuously try to drag me.

i think it just makes you feel resentful and you think that's better

meaning that it's all the same people commenting over and over

I mean people speculated I was the one wanking on them during the Noct drama when that was literally not true, because I realized very fast that I didn't even need to say anything ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But in my experience, theorizing on anonymous identities isn't productive at all for anyone

I just... wasn't even searching for that. I just stumbled on it when looking for something else

just don't go to wankgate

^ Agreed

if you aren't prepared you see yourself there you shouldn't go. i would say that to anyone

i say that to myself

Yeah, but it's easier to ignore if I don't think of it as a bunch of different people in the dw community that are now thinking these things about me

Wankgate won't make you feel better, period

i mean it's obviously just 1 or 2 people

At best you can rest assured that it seems like even the mods thought the bullying was going too far, since they froze the thread

but you don't have to dwell on who it is or speculate on here, that's a waste of your time

they only froze the thread because it's a private game

i'm pretty sure that's why they froze it, it was just the same couple of anons making stuff up

Nah, that's not the only reason

they don't freeze private game threads anymore

so that isn't why they froze it

oh.

Well, if you guys are still fine with me playing my characters

they froze it because it was just bullying

like it got weird and they froze the whole thing instead of just the weird part

Even Kainé, then I will continue to do so. 'cuz that's what makes me happy.

i think anyone who isn't fine with you playing your characters can simply not play with you

Yeah, the comments got really bizarre like, straight up fabricating shit

Yeah exactly, don't let wg drag you down. It's a cesspool.

And agreed, if anyone has any issues, they can opt out

they couldn't even explain what they thought was fetishy anyway which makes me think that wasn't their main concern

their main concern was they just don't like seeing you around having fun

Just remember that anyone can opt out for any reason or no reason - just say "sure thing" and move on (hopefully after they've told you which characters of theirs they don't want you to tag)

I just... would like to know the correct wording I should use that's the least offensive on my opt out page. Though my therapist used race as an example where some people prefer certain terms while others see them as slurs. So, I guess there really is no way to word it.

Don't dwell on whether it's because of wank or some personal beef with you

if they have an issue they can actually put into words, then they can talk to you about it because like i said. you've never been anything but open about being willing to correct mistakes

Hell they criticized me for having an incredibly thirsty character be even more thirsty in a smut game where your inhibitions were affected.

Well, this is gonna make me seem incredibly stupid and naiive, but what exactly does fetishing mean? That you literally get off on something having to do with the character?

it's more important to get across that your main goal is to be respectful imo. and people can take that or leave it

Believe me or not, but that question is seriously legitimate.

actually, I'm dumb. gonna Google it.

i mean, i can give you the same dictionary definition that google will give you but idk what wankgate means when they say it and neither do they

i would say fetishizing is hyperfocusing on a character's sexuality or genitalia or body, over the character traits that form a fully rounded personality for them

but i don't agree that you do that

ahaha, those people are idiots and don't even know what they're saying

By the early 20th century, fetish took on yet another meaning quite distinct from its antecedents: a sexualized desire for an object (such as a shoe) or for a body part that is not directly related to the reproductive act (such as an earlobe).

From Websters

it specifically says "not directly related to the reproductive act"

i wouldn't focus on that

well, I just didn't know what it meant

they're saying fetishizing = treating a character like a sexy object and not a person

And even your definition I don't do. I'd say I more focus on her swearing and the reactions she gets from other characters for how she dresses lol

and just, how she comes across as a bitch when she first meets someone then little things out her as being soft

case and point

i think it's probably subjective for some people and if they want to opt out then whatever

Yeah, I think they're trying to say that Kainé is nothing more than a sexual object which is objectively not true

Also her neat powers and to get more into it, the angst over being Shade possessed. That's why I play her from the canon point I do and that even in games that don't allow Tyrann actively, I make him more dormant and just a instinctive influence

People can be uncomfortable with the way she's depicted in canon/talked about by the creators (such as using what is now commonly regarded as a slur), and they don't have to play with her - but they have to use their words with you instead of just whining to wankgate and making shit up there

Like yes you do smut with her, so her genitalia is pretty relevant when that comes up, but you're not hyperfocused on them in situations when it doesn't matter

That's kind of one of the things I wanted to ask people here. What wording makes you most comfortable?

I think "intersex" is probably the most acceptable term for Kainé? And if anyone has issues with it because it doesn't perfectly conform to reality's depiction of intersex, they can fuck off

Or opt out, I'm not their boss

I do also question the person who mentions the story in Grimoire Nier. They had to be a fan of something in order to find that. And read it for that matter. I mean, Grimoire Nier is kinda niche

I think that's what the wiki says

Like fiction uses labels to describe exaggerated forms of real life disorders and such all the time

No one's saying anyone playing Moon Knight can't use DID to describe the character because real DID doesn't have people magically shifting alters

but you guys have a really good point. If these people have such a problem, why don't I have a million comments on my opt out post?

oh shit... even one of the other wikis...

Because DWRPers have issues with communication and would rather bully people out of the hobby than actually try and better the experience

also lol she's short without heels

ok I'm done. gonna go do my tags now.

or try, I have the headache from hell and nausea to boot. I think my partner's French toast she made caused me to get sick

I think folks use the term "hermaphrodite" out of ignorance not realizing it's a slur. I'd just avoid bringing it up while playing Kainé altogether

God forbid people learn new terms and shit right

I chatted with you briefly over Discord about this earlier on in my spring quarter, but my class went a little more in depth into intersexuality and its Incredibly misunderstood or just not known about at all.

One thing I will say is... when it comes to WG? If you pay any attention to it at ALL, take it as a point of pride. It means you're living rent-free in at least one persons' head.

swinging through to confirm that WG is a cesspool of delusional sadists fixated on opportunities to hurt other people for perceived past offenses that may or may not have happened

Otherwise, I can count on no hands how many times Wank Gate has actually produced a post worth anything more than a chuckle and click onto the next link that catches my interest.

if WG levels accusations at someone IMO that's more likely than not a sign of their integrity and innocence

That said, I do want to validate your feelings and that in spite of how awful WG is, I acknowledge that it's ok for you to feel insecure or unsafe in this situation.

people who have legit grievances take them through other channels

If you're really worried about your RP, it means keep RPing. It means you're LEARNING and growing.

Late to the party but wg is filled with petty mean girl children that don't even like each other.

oh yeah feeling attacked when being attacked is very understandable, and stopping to ask if maybe you might be the bad guy is a crucial part of not being a bad guy

It might help to step back from the hobby for a bit and just sit with those feelings for a bit. You do you boo.

self-care comes first, so if you need to step away for your own sake, do what you need to do and know you have friends here

Like this is a hobby. It's meant to be fun. If it's gotten to the point where you're feeling bad, then by all means step back from it for a while.

If tagging helps you feel better, then by all means do that.

...but seriously, at an intellectual level at least, try to bear in mind that the opinions of WG people have basically zero value.

Tbh, I'm actually feeling moderately stalked. The comments regarding my 9S. I apped him to 2 games, one was Noct and the other was Seasons. In Noct, I only threaded with 1 person and I know it's not them. Also I dislike when people refer to him as Shota when I'm playing him, because he's supposed to have the mental age of 19. As for Seasons...

I never actually played him

Anyway, this means that someone is so invested in me that they're fixated on what characters I play and in what games. That's stalker behavior.

lol

For someone to target you in such a massive game like that is incredibly petty.

So, yeah. Not worth time or breath.

I would literally be (very slightly) more inclined to listen to the opinions of a fascist than a wankgater. The fascist's opinions, you can filter through the lens of fascism and maybe recover some reality. WGers are just pathetic bundles of spite, hate, and malice.

Yeah, someone is DEFINITELY stalking you at that point.

and yeah agreed that's stalking behavior

...which is entirely what I expect from WG.

The only thing "shota" about 9S is that he wears shorts

my first encounter with WG was a WGer following someone else into bakerstreet memes, harassing them and anyone they threaded with through a sockpuppet with a username that used "autistic" as a slur

But he's clearly supposed to be physically/mentally late teens so the whole "shota kink" holds no water

the shota kink thing was very strange and left field

at that point it was like "everything is they do is gross and a kink because i dislike this person" and you can't really... fix that

I was dumb and looked at it out of morbid curiosity and I don't even understand what they're talking about

like the "yikes" was at what... looked to me like a completely reasonable discussion of policy with mods?

Yeah. I'm sorry you've somehow gotten the attention of someone this toxic they'll only give the most bad faith takes about you, but there's really no convincing people like that and worrying about won't get you anywhere

hdu, uh... [checks notes] ...talk to mods of a game about a sensitive subject and how to handle it in their RP community

They're like the kind of people who you'll say you love chocolate and they'll be like SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST VANILLA HUH?!?!

this looks to me like it's Hunter's Laptop tier desperately looking for something at least vaguely like an accusation despite the nonexistence of anything credible to base it on

so... my inclination is to say ignore them if possible, or if you're very worried about it, let folks know you've got a WG stalker so they know to be skeptical of any rumors that surface about you

IMO anyone who takes WG opinions seriously is no loss at all to cut out of your hobby space and/or life

or i should probably say anyone who takes WG opinions at face value

WG is a cesspit of nothing and your social circle is not enriched by having any of those petty bitches as your friend

feeling attacked over being attacked is entirely valid

they will literally lie and craft an agenda out of the smallest thing they dislike so ignore it, try and be better, but don't let it define you

^ agree agree

The original "yikes" was a little valid. I posted a comment with ignorance on what something was in order to avoid hurting someone's feelings, and in doing so broke like 10 rules

Oh. I made my timeline private again since they're spouting shit about my gfm. I'm not gonna publicize it anymore if that's what they're telling people. (again, more stalker behavior)

public timelines are never a good idea anyway tbh

but /hugs

I almost felt like I could lose brain cells everytime I attempt to go to WG. The only time I didn’t was for another game but most of time WG is not worth anyone’s time.

I only had it public for the gfm

also ch1ps0h0y:

resorted to the pain meds 'cuz head hurty and it's not going away. Tried eating dry toast in hopes I can keep it down

I got a note from my Dr now for the drug test (for new job) anyway.

The GFM dig was fucking dumb. Wankgate gets up in arms over people making excuses for why they can't find work - meanwhile you're actively applying for jobs while asking for help, but evidently you shouldn't have a job because boundaries or some shit

Which is it

Like, idk how to word this right, but the vibe I get from anons is that if you're "making excuses" for why you're not actively applying for work, you're too lazy - but if you don't live up to their social standards, then you don't "deserve" a job... or something, I guess

Luckily even wg mods tend to crack down when anons start trying to go there, because it's stupid and creepy when they start digging into your personal life

yeah, they were basically saying "it's your fault you don't have a job 'cuz you don't know how to act"

Yeahhh, which is like, not a conducive way of thinking at all

and there could be some truth to it, I don't know. Still am unsure about why I got so many interviews but no offers

Interviews are hard!

I did get an offer today, but I decided I wanted to take the Amazon job instead. I just don't know how to tell them.

And also stupid. But I remember some anon there called me a "dumb cunt" once when I said that a lot of folks have some degree of anxiety that affects their work

But some people seem to think they're above that shit

Mainly because of my reasons for getting a job right now. I wanted something to support myself while I wait for my employer sponsor. And I'd feel much worse about leaving a Vet ER than leaving a warehouse job when the time comes

Like nah man, I'm sure you're perfectly unaffected when you have a boss or customer scream at you and call you names

so true

go be a receptionist at my old job while they're screaming racist remarks about you 'cuz they don't want to pay their bill

Or have worked in a toxic environment in general where you're exposed to situations that affect your mental health

Yup

I have also had the pleasure of working in a toxic coworker environment

Like I'd love to be able to tell my potential employer that I can handle all situations gracefully, but the fact is that not everyone can know how they're going to react to a tense situation like that until they've experienced it, and they might not handle it well

exactly.

another reason why I'm hesitant to take the ER job

I can handle animals in pain to a certain degree... where I can fix it.

and I'm gonna stop that topic there

Due to my history, I just don't handle people getting angry and yelling at me well, which is unfortunately common in a lot of customer service roles, which are one of the most common jobs you can really get

That is exactly the problem I have.

The alternative is physically taxing work, which might not be an option if you're physically disabled (like I know you are)

That's what I'm going for now though... temporarily. Warehouse work is gonna be physically taxing. but then again, I had to lift 50lb dogs and restrain a 120lb dog that REALLY wanted the cat that was getting treated across the room

Yeah, I worry for you doing that type of work, since I know Amazon warehouses work their employees to the bone :\

I did talk to the accommodation person though. just gotta work things out

Hopefully they're understanding

I hope so

and that they don't judge me thinking I can't do ANYTHING because of my disability...

It just sucks when you're job hunting with disabilities in any capacity, though - since it's normalized to lie about yourself to some degree in order to get hired

like what happened at my last job

that's exactly what I had to do.

unless asked outright

like the interviewer that asked if I was on ssdi

idk why I didn't call her on it being illegal. as soon as I told the truth the odds of me getting that job were 0

I think the simple way to explain the seeming contradiction of WGers' attitudes about employment is "they are bad people who prioritize spite and malice above everything else"

wherever they can get a shot in

yeah basically

if there isn't something worth criticizing they'll either criticize something else and pretend it's worth criticizing, or just make some shit up

reason, empathy, and acceptance of objective reality are among the "everything else" that they subordinate to spite and malice

so, I thought about this, and this stalker behavior is totally going against MY boundaries.

so now who'se at fault?

lol someone should go to wg on my behalf and say people are doing that

no one should ever go to wg and say anything

True. I was more joking

hence the 'lol'

I haven't been able to sleep.

it's 7am and I haven't slept at all last night

every time I try, even though I want to let it go, and I'm OK when I'm awake, the crap just returns as soon as I close my eyes

the last thing you want is someone going to wg and bringing it up again

this too shall pass but it takes time

yeah. hopefully people will forget about it. I just don't want to be the next Gsai or whatever their name is

gonna try to sleep again

you would have to refuse to change anything about your behavior for over 15 years and then deceive over 100 rpers in one fell swoop to become gsai

don't worry about it

Yeah lmao it would be hard to top Gsai

People will eventually forget about your shit - Gsai's history runs much, much deeper

I don't have anything to do with any of this but here's a tip before playing a character: do your research. Kainé IS intersex and not any other word, and if you're unable to know your terms you should step back, get informed and then play.

Specially if you're some cisgender person, you're sort of obligated to educate yourself before hopping in with incorrect information. Because it can make you look like a fetishist. Not saying you are, but this happens.

Also, even though it's roleplay, it's a nice and respectful thing to do for non-cisgender people. They're fetishized enough. Google really helps. Playing ignorant about proper terms isn't an excuse in 2023.

Yeah, what drives me bonkers (and what I think maybe confuses some) are the few people who get mad when players refer to Kainé as intersex when... she is intersex? What else are you supposed to call her?

Because going with "futa trope" literally is fetishizing her, which is what some seem to prefer if you're playing that character, which is so much worse in my opinion

You can have your issues with the character, but those arguing that she isn't intersex is so frustrating